Holly Jahangiri

I stalked and tackled my first author interviewee this week, the plucky Hellcat otherwise known as Holly Jahangiri. After securing her foot in a titanium Hellcat trap, I promised her cute mini bananas in exchange for truthful answers to a series of inane questions. After 48 hours of spitting and shouting, “GO TO HELL!!!”, I saw her mime peeling a banana on one of the monitors I’d trained on her. My lips curled into a Grinchy grin, and just that easily we were off!

I grilled her to within an inch of her life. Thankfully she put up with it because, apparently, she will do darn near anything in exchange for tiny fruit.

Here’s the “official” Holly, lifted by yours truly from her “About Me” page:

Holly Jahangiri (holly.jahangiri[at]gmail[dot]com) is a professional writer with over twenty years’ experience in technical writing, freelancing, fiction, poetry, and editing. On a really good writing day, she claims (tongue-in-cheek) to be channeling the spirits of Edgar Allan Poe, Erma Bombeck, and O. Henry. On a really bad writing day, she claims to have poured every last ounce of her creative ability and energy into childbirth, and has two wonderful children – her son, William, and her daughter, Katie – to prove it. But regardless of whether it’s a good day or a bad day, she’s grateful for the love and support of her husband, J.J., who has put up with her for nearly a quarter of a century.

The unofficial Holly is faintly reminiscent of a female Kramer (from Seinfeld). That is, if Kramer had an IQ of oh I don’t know – 200 or so – and had a life. She’s forthcoming, but not unkind. Being endearingly earnest and genuine, I imagine she’s spent a lifetime checking and balancing the impressions left by her candor. From what I’ve seen, and to the detriment of her would-be career in law, it’s impossible for her to tell or silently abet a lie. She suffers in silence through my grammar-challenged blog posts, even though her editor jaws must ache from clenching.

She’s utterly fascinating.

At long last, the interview!

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I just uncovered your WOOF win. Congratulations! What are the first three words that pop into your head when you think of writing? work, creation, fun (I’d have said “playing God” but that’s a two-word phrase and would’ve taken up too much of my three words.) And thanks!

The writing life: structured or chaotic? Structured, when it’s work related. Fairly chaotic when it’s creative writing. I have to set deadlines for myself; sometimes they’re not real or realistic, but it’s deadline pressure that ensures anything gets done. That said, my desk is usually a mess. I can cut a three-foot stack of papers like a deck of cards, right down to the one I’m looking for. It’s a magic trick that awes, even as it disgusts, the neat freaks in the house.

What is your favorite vice? Laziness. Doing absolutely nothing anyone else would call “productive.” That, and eating too much. I like food. I’d say the usual cliche, “Chocolate,” but the truth is, I can overindulge on just about anything that tastes delicious.

Best writing advice you never received?
Best writing advice you never received? Is this a trick question? Are you, by repeating question #2, trying to ascertain whether I’m a decent editor? “Best writing advice you never received,” hm? I’m just trying to think if there’s any writing advice I could give that hasn’t been said to me by someone, somewhere along the line. We writers are very good at giving advice. Not always very good at following it, but we can write it all day long.

Best writing advice I EVER received? Tom Clancy’s “Just write the damned book.” Sums it all up nicely and concisely; you can’t sell a book you haven’t written, so worrying about finding an agent or a publisher is a bit premature. Maybe you can sell an unwritten book once you’ve proven that you can write one, preferably two. But not having a product in hand? That’s a hard sell.

If writing in any form were not an option, how do you imagine you would express yourself? Through photography or art. Something three-dimensional, most likely – maybe clay or mixed media.

What compels you to write? Feedback from readers. It’s just no fun without readers. If it were “just for me,” I’d be happy living in my imagination. It’s a beautiful place, always changing. Never grows old. That would be ever so much easier than writing or typing.

What is your five year goal? Is this an author interview or a job interview?

How did you juggle a family with small children and your writing? I don’t. When I juggle them, they tend to bring chainsaws, flaming batons, and bowling balls into the act. Best to let everyone juggle and everything juggle itself, don’t you think? Besides, I no longer have “small children.” My eldest is twenty-one, and at a lithe 6′3″ can hardly be considered “small.” My youngest is thirteen. You don’t call a thirteen year old boy “small” if you value delicate body parts.

How can you tell when you’ve stumbled upon a good writer? They eloquently yell, “Ouch!” and remember that mild epithets require an exclamation mark. Lesser writers tend to swear and grab me by the ankle in a misery-loves-miserable-company sort of way.

Okay, seriously? A good writer has a passion for storytelling and a passion for writing. When I hear someone talk about their characters as if they have become real – when a writer says to me that one of their characters woke them up in the middle of the night, or told them something, or pouted when they tried to change the storyline, my first thought isn’t, “Oh, my God, this person’s schizophrenic!” My first thought is, “Wow, this is a REAL writer!”

What three qualities would your perfect hero possess? Strength of character; compassion and kindness towards others without being a doormat; and the courage to stand up for what’s right.

Same question - heroine? Strength of character; compassion and kindness towards others without being a doormat; and the courage to stand up for what’s right.

Do you care what other people think of you? I’d be lying if I said no, wouldn’t I? I don’t obsess over it or let it dictate what I say, or write, or do. It’s unrealistic to think that everyone will like you or approve of you, but the people I value most seem willing to accept, and even appreciate, our differences.

What is your relationship to food? It’s complicated. No, it’s not – I like good food. I eat too much of it. If I could find the perfect balance in my menage a trois with food and exercise, life would be just about perfect. To me, it’s all about the senses – it’s a good thing natural beauty, touch, aroma, and music aren’t fattening. Why taste has to be is beyond me.

What makes a person sexy? Cleanliness, good hygiene, and intelligence.

Do you like yourself? Yes, and it’s a good thing, too – I’m stuck with me. For the rest of my life. There’s just no escape! Good thing I don’t look in the mirror each morning, stick out my tongue, and say nasty things to me, isn’t it?

What books so enveloped you as to alter your life for a brief or extended period of time? Every book that manages to hold my attention past the first 5 pages alters it for a brief time. Books that have stuck with me longer than that include the Chronicles of Narnia, Animal Farm, A Wrinkle in Time, Atlas Shrugged, Lord of the Flies, The Fountainhead, Diana Gabaldon’s Outlander series…it’s really too long a list, and it’s always subject to change. The thing about a really engaging book is that it touches something inside you and makes you feel less alone in the universe – or it opens your eyes and gives you that “Aha!” moment of discovery. It sets the mental wheels in motion, in a way that feels right and can’t be stopped when you reach the last page.

Describe the writing environment that works best for you. A very silent one. It’s comfortable, the temperature is always right, the coffee cup never gets empty, and there are no distractions. Wait, scratch that – that would mean no kids and no Internet. I can deal with the distractions, but the good Lord really ought to give me the energy to stay up past 2:00 AM when they’re all in bed.

What hinders your writing more than any other factor? Interruptions. I’m easily distracted.

Does online hobnobbing with other writers, bloggers, agents and publishers help or hinder your creative process? Networking can be very helpful. But it can also become a closed loop; it’s good to “hobnob” with readers (so you know the kinds of things they want to read), and editors (because they are ruthless about telling you the truth about your writing), and interesting people from all walks of life (so you can steal like a thief to build your characters).

What is your favorite pair of shoes? Ooooh, you’ve been talking to my old friend, Jace, haven’t you? I prefer comfortable shoes. With size 11 feet, I gave up on “fashionable” back in 9th Grade. Actually, my two favorite brands are SAS for comfort and everyday wear, and Naturalizer for dressier or more professional looks. Truth be told, though, my favorite footwear is NO shoes at all. I love running around in bare feet.

Boxers or briefs? On me, or on my hubby?

Do you like long hair on a man? Not particularly, no. It works for some guys, and I have nothing against it, per se, but I like the clean cut, clean shaven look. I really like to be able to see a man’s face, without his chin hiding behind facial hair.

Describe your sense of humor. Wry and dry. I love wordplay. I am really uncomfortable with slapstick and other physical humor, and I think that’s part of the reason I’m not a huge fan of clowns. A spritz from a good, cold bottle of Seltzer water on a hot day, though, can be a blessing.

Do you consider yourself a people person? Sometimes. Depends on the people.

What types of activities stoke your muse? That’s a personal question. You’ll have to ask my Muse. If you can find her. Last I heard, she was backpacking through Scotland. It’s okay, though. I can write without her. So long as the imaginary people in my head don’t go on strike and refuse to tell me their stories, it’s all good.

When you write, do you write to yourself, an audience, or a particular person? I write to amuse myself and others. Depending on what I’m writing, I may have a particular audience in mind, or not. It varies.

What sorts of things spin you into a writer’s high? When my characters are talking to me and showing me their lives. When what appears on the page surprises me.

What should aspiring fiction writers focus on? There is so much out there to distract. The focus should always be on telling a good story. Be ruthless in cutting out everything that isn’t needed to move the story forward or to provoke an emotional response in the reader (preferably not the kind of emotional response that makes books fly out of their hands to smack the wall across the room).

Do you read books on writing? Magazines? Are they helpful to you? Eh, not so much. It’s too easy to write about writing, especially when the story ideas aren’t flowing. For some reason, writers – or people who aren’t so much writers, as people who would like to have written something – crave more and more of this stuff. They’re never satisfied, so it’s a never-ending market. But in the end, most are just saying the same thing in different ways. I do enjoy reading books like Rita Mae Brown’s Starting from Scratch, and Stephen King’s On Writing. Because they say as much about the writer’s approach to life as about the writing process itself. They go deeper than how to craft sentences readers will want to read.

Is writing a talent or a skill? Both. Raw talent can only take a person so far. Hard work, top-notch skills, and professionalism can almost make up for a lack of talent, but talent alone will never make up for a lack of skill, positive attitude, and good work ethic.

What helps your writing skills more – reading or writing? Both. You can’t write well if you don’t read. But the best way to write well is to write and write some more. Writing and reading are inseparable, and writers who claim they’re too busy writing to read anything are insufferable.

What daily activities are the most helpful to you for honing writing skills? Practice, practice, practice. And it doesn’t hurt to have a good dictionary at hand, as well as a solid grammar reference book, and a style guide or two. For fiction and creative writing, though, it is essential that you go out and GET A LIFE, because if you do nothing but apply butt to chair all day and write, eventually you run out of things to write about.

Do you plan what you’re going to write ahead of time, or write off the cuff? Sometimes, I think I do. But when the writing is really flowing well, my characters never fail to surprise me. In other words, I have a general idea of where I’m going, and a map, but sometimes they yank the wheel and yell, “Road trip!” and we end up seeing unexpected – and interesting – places.

Given equally talented authors, why do you think some fiction novels get published while others do not? Persistence is probably the biggest factor, but as Einstein supposedly said, “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” If you’re going to hire an agent, hold out for a good one with a proven track record – remember, they work for you. If they won’t take you as a client, then it’s because they don’t feel they can sell your work. And they shouldn’t get paid unless they do, so that’s fair. Don’t give up, though. It’s a business. Either make the work more marketable, or find yourself a different market, a different buyer. Keep writing while you submit the manuscript, because when someone buys it, they may want to know if you have any more in the works.

How do you get your hair so shiny? I try to keep it clean, and I use very little “product” of any kind on it. This is my natural color, by the way. I played around with color for a few years, out of boredom. Then I decided I wanted to go gray naturally, and had my hair professionally colored to match the roots, as it grew in. Funny thing is, I was noticing a lot of gray hairs when I was coloring it, but now, not so much. It may be a while before I can mess with the color again, if I want to see the natural gray. Also, I think nutrition has a lot to do with growing healthy hair. I don’t follow some “good hair diet,” but I looked it up – seems I’m eating right, anyway.

Thank you, I really enjoyed reading your responses. If I can think of any more questions before posting the interview I’ll pop them off to you in hopes that you’re around. Otherwise… any last thoughts? No…do I get a last meal? Smartass! No, as one of my coworkers pointed out, I’m a dumbass. My brains are NOT located in my butt.

More questions if you’re so inclined, butt woman. When did you first become aware of your inner critic? What is the best way to handle her? Hmm. Maybe when I was nine, and first heard my own voice on a tape recorder. My inner critic doesn’t like her own reflection. But for the most part, she just sulks in a corner. She’s read my writing often enough to know how I deal with unreasonable characters. This is how I deal with evil inner critics.

Do you write without thought to grammar and punctuation, or edit as you go? I edit as I go. My fingertips FEEL typos, for the most part. It’s not that I don’t make mistakes, I just don’t leave them on the page very long. To be fair, though, proper grammar and punctuation come as naturally to me as breathing, most days.

Do you do your creative writing with pen and paper or on your computer? I usually do it on the computer; I just type faster than I write, and I don’t have to kill trees to correct the typos. But handwriting taps into a different part of the brain, I think. Sometimes that works better. Also, I don’t have a notebook PC, so I take notebooks – pen and paper – with me when I travel. I also take “notes” with my camera, to help jog my memory. And I have a digital voice recorder that gets very little use (remember, I hate the sound of my voice on a recording) but it’s there.

High School: Good or bad memory? What memory? I skipped 8th, 11th, and 12th grades. 9th and 10th were okay. Mostly unmemorable.

You skipped quite a few grades. Are you glad you did, or would you like to go back in time and experience them? The Principal of my high school insisted on holding a sort of “exit interview” with me before letting me go full time to college. Her biggest worry? “Aren’t you afraid you will have missed out on a big part of your life, never having a senior prom?”

I looked at her for a long moment. “There will be other dances.” I didn’t tell her I was already dating a college classmate and would be going out dancing at a club that Saturday night. I mean really, what was the point? I didn’t miss a thing. No, I take that back – I missed reading To Kill a Mockingbird and Catcher in the Rye. I read those after I finished law school.

You went to law school???? Oh, you knew that already. Didn’t you?

I’ve never practiced law, though. People always say, “Oh, the way you love to argue, you should be a lawyer.” It’s not true. There’s a lot about law that’s just tedious. And when it comes to ethics, I don’t like playing in the shades of gray. I figured I’d score 100% on the MPRE (Multistate Professional Responsibility Exam) and I just passed. I earned a respectable score, but it wasn’t even close to perfect. I nearly cried. I think of myself as an ethical human being, so where did I go wrong? My professor just laughed at me. “Oh, you’re ethical all right. You got all the answers in the judicial conduct section right – judges are supposed to avoid even the appearance of impropriety. Where you didn’t do so well was on ‘zealous representation of the client within the bounds of the law.’ You just won’t step one toe into those gray areas, will you?” That made me feel better; at least I could sleep nights. But it bothered me, you know, because in order to protect my own sense of right and wrong, I might not be serving my future clients as well as they had a right to expect.  I also had a baby right before my third year. And I realized just how much time the practice of law would take up – I figured law school was just the tip of the iceberg. I didn’t need more money, I needed more time. And I didn’t want to have to take my work home with me every night. I didn’t want to live it, breathe it, sleep it – I didn’t love it that much. I was actually pretty burnt out by the time I finished law school, and I wanted my life back. I’d been working full time, carrying nine to twelve hours of grad school classes every semester for three years – and giving birth. I was tired, and playing with my baby girl was so much more interesting and fun than the thought of practicing law. When people think of lawyers, they think of huge salaries – but that’s not always the case. It’s like thinking of Stephen King and his six figure advances when you imagine being a writer. Beginning lawyers work their behinds off – often putting in eighty hours a week, or more – for less than I was making when I graduated from law school.

I figured I was already good at writing, and I was sick of practicing stuff, so I chose to continue my career as a technical writer instead. Ironically, it was right around the time I started law school that my employer caught me writing – and decided I was sufficiently good at it that they’d pay me to do more of it. Up until then, I’d been a systems engineer with no formal training in computer science. Talk about stressful! I was scribbling notes as fast as I could, documenting how to do this and that so I wouldn’t have to keep asking the same stupid questions over and over again, just trying to keep my head above water. My future boss watched this for a while, and finally said, “We really need a technical writer – are you interested?”  I caught the words “writer,” “same salary,” and “not on call 24 hours a day” and said “Yes! Please!” and, about five minutes later, I thought to ask, “What’s a technical writer?” That was nearly thirty years ago, back when “cut and paste” really meant “cut and paste” – with scissors and glue.

I’m just sitting here with my mouth gaping. Since we’re in the thick of it, I’ve always wondered how you fell into that initial job as systems engineer. Even more now that I know you were in law school. And before systems engineers really existed. How did that happen? I had a job in operations, basically doing manual report distribution. This was a really glamorous job that involved separating perforated pages of computer printouts, removing carbon paper from multi-part forms, slicing off the pinfeed holes, and bagging reports in a big plastic baggy for mailing downtown. Picture me doing this in a dress and heels…

I’ve always said, looking back, that this was the perfect training for the job they really wanted me to do – which was to code, train others, and be an evangelist for an automated report distribution system the company was developing at the time. Good strategy – ensure that the person knows the manual process and hates it thoroughly, then introduce the new and improved process.

Shortly after that, the company I worked for was acquired by a large petroleum company, and then one of the businesses was sold off to a different firm. My supervisor’s boss went with this spin-off company. He seemed to think “overeducated” somehow made up for “no experience whatsoever” and I’d proven myself a quick learner, so he asked if I wanted to come work for him as a systems engineer. I was very up-front about my lack of experience, and he assured me that training would be part of the deal. It wasn’t. “Training” consisted of picking my coworker’s brains until I strained their patience. Writing documentation was how I survived, and thank goodness someone noticed that – because by moving from systems engineering to technical writing, I was able to finally do something I felt confident doing.

You’re obviously quite brilliant. People like me, you know, normal people who use bad grammar and punctuate as if we’re having the occasional spasm, have a hard time loving their fellow man. Is it harder or easier for people like you? I’m often torn by a Pollyanna-like glow of love for my fellow man and an overwhelming urge to shove him off a cliff. I don’t think that has anything to do with the ability to spell and punctuate. But the thing about being a writer? You can shove these characters off a cliff with impunity. Over and over and over… There’s a lot to be said for sublimation, isn’t there?

What are your thoughts on message boards as a tool for honing the craft of writing? Message boards as a tool for honing the craft of writing? I think they could be valuable, but I haven’t found many that really deliver that value. They tend to turn into a place to avoid writing. And people tend to get careless (as they do in emails, and even on blogs); they begin to write very informally, and to use lots of cute little emoticons to avoid misunderstandings.

What about feedback? Is it always helpful? What if you are getting feedback from somebody who either doesn’t “get” your brilliance, or isn’t that good of a writer themselves but don’t know it at the time? Should you change your writing per other peoples’ suggestions? Did you? Should you? Would you? Oh my, I may just faint. Feedback is an interesting subject, because I think it’s invaluable, but it can also be completely useless and destructive. That said, if you’re thin-skinned, can’t handle criticism, and fear rejection, then for God’s sake, don’t write. Seriously. If you can’t take Simon Cowell ripping your manuscript into little shreds on national TV, then consider another field.

You have to be able to discern the constructive critique – the really useful nuggets that will improve your writing (these are often the ones that sting, because you recognize the truth and it embarrasses you to think you didn’t fix these things before someone else could point them out) – from the utter crap. Often, the utter crap is very well-meaning crap. It can be said with the kindest of intentions, and still be utter crap. Or it can clearly be the lashing out of someone who has had a bad day, and simply wants to drag another human being into their misery.

Empty praise, too, is utter crap. “This is wonderful!” may be sincere, it may be true, but unless it’s very specific (“What’s so wonderful about it, exactly?”) the better question is: “Would you pay me $10.95 right now for the enjoyment you got from reading that?” NOT that it’s all about the money – it’s not. But it is about value, and readers’ time is worth money. You want people to buy your book, and it’s going to cost them from $7.95 to $30 to do that. Are they going to feel good about their purchase? In today’s economy? It’s a really scary question, but don’t forget that your time, imagination, skill, and hard work are worth something, too.

It’s a generous thing, to give your writing away for free; don’t go overboard and be too grateful for that “exposure” so many publishers offer writers. They have sold you the notion that this “exposure” (think starving writers flashing their spindly, naked bods under worn London Fog trenchcoats) is worth something – when in fact, it’s your content they need in order to bring in THEIR revenues, nine times out of ten. Start your own blog, if “free exposure” is what you’re after. Blogger’s free. Learn to promote it yourself, because again, that’s one of those skills successful writers develop.

Oh, to actually ANSWER the question: If someone doesn’t “get” my brilliance, then I’m NOT being a brilliant communicator. Writing is all about communicating. If someone doesn’t “get” it, then I’ve failed.

Interesting. Do you think writing as art is to be appreciated objectively rather than subjectively? Are we all speaking from the same place to the same end? Should we use the same method? Can anyone appreciate art objectively?? Is that even the point of art?

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Thank you, Holly, for your patience and for being honest and aboveboard. I learned a great deal and had a lot of fun.

Holly’s 411

Blog: It’s All a Matter of Perspective
Facebook Page: Holly Jahangiri
FriendFeed: Holly Jahangiri
Twitter: @HollyJahangiri

Holly’s Media Kit (pdf)
100 Good Things About Me by Holly Jahangiri

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